Code

Simon Munchkin · 09-03-2003, 11:06 AM

OK I am here because I know nothing about coding (the sort of thing I want to code) and see it all as a big mess!

What is UNIX?

Why is Linux any better?

Why hasnt Windows been decompiled (illegally obviously) so that you can build it from scratch like you can with Linux?

Real lame question but if Windows source code is a secret then how do people compile programs to run under it? I got borland compiler and it is not what I want really. I need something that will make an app like AntiSpyXP that just tweaks the registry by ticking boxes on a window.

Valmont · 09-03-2003, 02:17 PM

- UNIX is a multiuser Network Operating System.
- Linux isn't better perse. It's made by nerds for nerds.
- For desktop applications, almost every programming language will do. Try Java, Visual Basic, C++, any will do.
- Windows isn't decompiled because that is illegal to start with. Secondly, it is written in "C". That's impossible to decompile. Small insignificant sections as an exception.
- You don't need to know the source code of an object to program for that object (like Windows, Office, etc.). You need an "API". An application Program Interface is
a concept that lets programmers program for that object. An API "emits" objects and methods (functions) and properties (variables) to the public in general. The programmer uses these emitted objects to make new programs from it.
For example, Microsoft Windows emits "windows" objects. This way a programmer can make new windows in his application.

- Val -

Simon Munchkin · 09-03-2003, 03:05 PM

So there are compilers and API's but what is the difference?

Simon Munchkin · 09-03-2003, 03:20 PM

I have heard that you should stick to C++ as a beginner which is an adaptation of C.

If you can compile C then why not decompile it too?

I have used java for HTML pages (no right click script) and have also inserted huge search engine scripts (see www.dvd.ac). I remember doing the no right click script and thinking "this is an application not just HTML code translated into readable text". It has a little window and you have to press OK before the page lets you close it or minimize/maximize.

It impressed me but of course I just pasted in the script!

I couldnt write it, let alone what I dream of making!

I want to create an all in one innterface to tweak whatever version of windows you have. It could take (even a good programmer) ages because of the varying Windows versions.

Is it feasible to suggest I will ever do this since I gave up on HTML when I got to the tables bit?!?!

I am bored with HTML now, it only does so much. I love flash sites (and the way you cannot view source etc) they look very professional.

I dont want to learn Flash though I need to create this thing!

By the way I appreciate that anyone here knowing anything spends their time replying, I have a million questions related to programming but I better start the O'Reilly books I suppose,

thanks Val,

Ric.

Valmont · 09-03-2003, 09:07 PM

What you want is a basic knowledge of programming. By starting with programming, you will also learn what compilers do, and
what decompilers are.

Compiling means:
Convert my code (wich humans can read) into code that cpu's can read.
A C++ compiler will generate code as efficient as possible. But this means that the C++ structure dissapears. A CPU doesn't know about structures.
Decompiling:
Make machine language ( = CPU language) readable for humans again.
If the original program was written in C++ then the problem is that the decompiler needs to know what a human programmmer actually meant. There is no way a program knows what humans intended. That is the problem with C++.
With some programming languages, this problem can be less. But not with C++.

Time to start:
Start up google, and search for Bloodshed's DevC++.
It is a free C++ IDE (programming environment).
- Download it. Install it.
- Download the Visual Debugger, wich is
made for this IDE. Where? Read the helpme files, read the forums on the DevShed's site, etc.
- Buy a C++ beginners book.

Here is a link to get DevC++: CLICK HERE to BLoodshed's DevC++
Here is the link to get Insight Debugger: CLICK HERE for visual debugger from Insight.

Belisarius · 09-04-2003, 05:14 AM

First off, Javascript != Java. They are two different beasts. They just have a similar syntax, so it's easy to move from one to another, but Java has a very different philosophy/structure to it.

Second, it's not going to be easy to create something like TweakUI from a web-app, because most languages such as Javascript or JavaApplet don't let you interact directly with the system. In fact, Java is suppose to be cross-platform, and there's no way to directly interact with the OS, because in Java you're suppose to abstract out the OS and hardware so it can be run on any platform with a VM.

Third, C++ is a good language to learn but it can be a bit tricky. I'd suggest something like PHP, Perl, or Java (and my personal preference is Java by a mile). You don't need to manage pointers or memory then.

Simon Munchkin · 09-04-2003, 09:49 AM

The big mess I reffered to meant Perl, Java, C, C++, CGI, PHP.

I thought these were all for different things. You mean they all do the same thing?!

Java looks a bit like HTML to me, possibly even easier to pick up.

It does not interact with an OS but couldnt you just assume that the VM is the OS?

Java is good, I had a javascript calculator. It is a really good language but I want to create stuff like the "Install Shield" and setup apps when you install programs.

I guess armies of programmers work round the clock to create such apps and pay astronimical licence fees for all the pro software it takes.

Look at Norton 2003. It is colourful and look more professional. What are the tools used to make something like Systemworks 2003?

I think C++ sounds like a good option.

Valmont · 09-04-2003, 09:53 AM

Good point Beli.
But realize that C++ is cross platform too! C++ doesn't know about "registries" and "windows" and "toolbars".
But by using the right libraries, one can program specifically for a system.

I think that's the big difference with Java. One doesn't need to use OS-specific libraries to make a program for that OS. Am I right? (I don't do Java, remember?

).

Hmm, I've got an idea! Lets meet in the lounge

.

Simon Munchkin · 09-04-2003, 10:17 AM

I compare programmers to lawyers in the sense that you have to learn an unbelievable amount of information to do this with any success.

You also need to be very good at maths, which lawyers dont need really.

Plus you get paid far less for programming...

Oh well.

PS what is delphi anyway?

Belisarius · 09-07-2003, 04:25 PM

Been busy the past few days. Anyways:

Java is nothing like HTML. And Java is not Javascript, which is what you are probably thinkning of.

CGI isn't a programming language per se, but a methodology of combining the web with programming. You can apply any language to CGI, Perl, PHP, Java, Python, what-have-you. The goal of each language in this sense is that same: take human input from the web and generate content based on that input. That's how you get these webpages that show you different things depending on what you do, like Amazon or Google. It used to be you only had static pages that never changed. Can you imagine a time when the web had only static content?

Perl, PHP, Java all have means to accomplish the effects of CGI. Some are easier than others, some are more powerful than others.

As far as tools, a good programming IDE is a thing of much debate. Just go into a unix board and as which is better, VI or emacs and you'll spark a holy war. Personally, for programming, I use Netbeans. But that's geared mostly towards Java programming.

Belisarius · 09-07-2003, 04:33 PM

The idea in Java is that you DON'T program for a specific OS, you program to the Java specification. Ever notice how graphical Java programs all have a certain look to them?

In Java, there are two graphical libraries, AWT and Swing. Both suck, but that's neither here nor there. In reality, Swing (which is what most people use now) is a refinement of AWT, making it lighter and easier to use. In Java, people program with those packages. They have their own style, and as a result look the same no matter where you run them. A Java app in Gnome looks just like a Java app in XP.

It's up to the VM to do the gritty implementation of the graphical libraries on an OS-by-OS basis. To the Java programmer, those details don't matter.

Quote:

Originally posted by Valmont
Good point Beli.
But realize that C++ is cross platform too! C++ doesn't know about "registries" and "windows" and "toolbars".
But by using the right libraries, one can program specifically for a system.

I think that's the big difference with Java. One doesn't need to use OS-specific libraries to make a program for that OS. Am I right? (I don't do Java, remember? ).

Hmm, I've got an idea! Lets meet in the lounge .

Belisarius · 09-07-2003, 04:35 PM

We don't need to go to law-school though. And we don't have to deal with people.

Quote:

Originally posted by Simon Munchkin
I compare programmers to lawyers in the sense that you have to learn an unbelievable amount of information to do this with any success.

You also need to be very good at maths, which lawyers dont need really.

Plus you get paid far less for programming...

Oh well.

PS what is delphi anyway?

npa · 09-07-2003, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Belisarius
In fact, Java is suppose to be cross-platform, and there's no way to directly interact with the OS, because in Java you're suppose to abstract out the OS and hardware so it can be run on any platform with a VM.

JNI: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutor...1.1/index.html

Belisarius · 09-08-2003, 07:19 AM

Well, yes there's that, but in general you're not suppose to use it. Only about 1% of all apps should use JNI. The last time I saw it used was to get more precise time measurements than Java was capable of in that particular release (1.2 I think).

Simon Munchkin · 09-08-2003, 09:03 AM

Hmm no law school and no dealing with people, sounds pretty good to me!

I am only just doing the "Hello World!" program - yes, I know next to nothing about programming apps.

Does anyone know of anywhere online that puts companies (wanting a website) in touch with web developers? This is a silly question really but I have to ask. I just mean low budget websites, nothing flashy (pun intended) but just well coded HTML with a nice layout and color scheme.

If I owned a company and wanted a website but knew nothing about computers, I wouldnt know of anywhere to take my project so it could be done by the right person.

Proper made to order websites cost thousands. My own company's site cost about £10,000 and there is only about 12 pages of HTML to it (plus a flash version of the site) but even so, if this is the money they are making, then I want a cut of the action!

Flash MX is a windows app! You do not really need to know about computers to use this software, you just have to learn Flash, which isnt like a language, its just a program like PhotoShop, Cubase etc.