Best place to start

journeyman · 03-16-2004, 03:34 AM

So here's the thing. I spend a lot of time on the computer and a fair amount of time online (now then - nothing tacky !

). I am reasonably able when it comes to using the pc effectively, modding it etc. but know nothing about coding. So where, now there are so many coding languages, should I begin ? Basic research suggests that I should be looking at object orientated thinking (whatever that is

) but beyond that the endless arguments over whether even if your gonna go for c++ you should learn c first are enough to phase me. Python seems to be accessible from the point of view of tutorials on line and being able to run and save programs in Windows. Is this a good place to start and get a good grounding ? Heeellpppppppp....

Replies from the experienced and novice coder welcome. Cheers Journeyman

rdove · 03-16-2004, 05:10 AM

I have been working in Visual Basic for a number of years and really like it, but most of the work I do is focused toward Rapid Application Development and VB is excellent for that. The only set back is that your programs can only run on windows-based platforms. It is a firly easy language to pickup on and at college it was the first programming class you were required to take.

I've been through C++ and Java and I really disliked both of them. Was too much work to get anything accomplished. Building GUI's was a pain because you had to build them all separately. Don't get me wrong, you have to do that in VB as well (Even more so in .NET), but it isn't as complicated.

Thats my opinion.

journeyman · 03-16-2004, 05:31 AM

Just to say thanks for your reply,

This is useful. Partly because one of the blocks I have with learning to program is finding a use for it that repays the time and effort involved in learning, apart from the satisfaction of having the additional knowledge itself of course . As Direct X seems to be becoming more interesting from the point of view of customising the GUI and this is vbs as far as I know, this may well be a practical place to start.

Cheers - The Journeyman

Valmont · 03-16-2004, 10:03 AM

Quote:

As Direct X seems to be becoming more interesting from the point of view of customising the GUI

More and more game-companies are switching from OpenGL to DX as well.
So DX is worth while definatly

.

Kudos!
- Val -

Valmont · 03-16-2004, 10:05 AM

Now I forgot what I was doing here.
Oh yes, looking at your nick: I am preparing a lengthy tutorial wich has the word "journyman" in it...
Just wanted to say that. LOL.

journeyman · 03-17-2004, 01:02 AM

Will definitely check out some vbs sites - thanks for taking the time to reply - the only tute The Journeyman normally gets mentioned in, is how NOT to do it tutes

journeyman · 03-17-2004, 01:22 AM

Just checked out vbs - do I really have to fork out hard earned pennies for vb6 before I can start programming ? I'm very sad.

Actually I can scrape it together, I have a kidney I haven't sold yet

and won't mind if it gets me into coding.

Is any of the coding that I would learn writing vbs portable to other methods such as c/c++ or python, do you know, either in ways of thinking, syntax etc.

I know you'd think I'd have a clue, but when it comes to coding I'm so cherry you could put me in a bowl and squirt cream on top and I wouldn't look out of place !

Valmont · 03-17-2004, 03:08 AM

VB6 + portable = njet.

Think twice about starting with VB. It is usefull for rapid desktop and office apllication development but the limits of VB (gaming, system programming, etc) are easely reached.

Furthermore, if you understand C++ you will learn VB very fast, but the opposite is not true. A disadvantage is it's (C++) steep learning curve.

If I was new at this I would start with Java. If I need extreme speed or flexibility I could always switch to C++. And If I don't need much cpu power then I could try VB anyway. And C#.net is always worth while.

Do you have Visual C++ 6? If so then you can download the ported Qt2.3 libraries for making GUI's the faster way but that is not an issue right now.

Quote:

do I really have to fork out hard earned pennies for vb6 before I can start programming?

Oh you have to buy it first? Then don't.

What do you want to do with your programs? If you know the answer then you know what to choose.

journeyman · 03-17-2004, 03:33 AM

It always seems to come back to c++ doesn't it? Sooner or later I guess I'm gonna have to stop kicking and screaming and just get to grips with it

But whenever I look at C++ I end up getting caught up with whether I should start with C++ or start with C. Any thoughts

Appreciate your taking the time Valmont

Cheers Dante.

Valmont · 03-17-2004, 04:14 AM

Quote:

It always seems to come back to c++ doesn't it?

Nope. I said I would choose for Java if I was new to programming. I would also be interested in .NET. But I certainly wouldn't BUY expensive tools in the beginning. Nothing wrong with Java anyway as far as I can see it. I don't use it you see.

IF you start with C++ then you don't have to know about C. Perhaps a few minor things but you will learn that during some C++ learning process.

The "trick" is that .NET and Java is taking over most of the tasks we used to do in C++. C++ will remain to have its value but only for specialized tasks or to squeeze the last bit out of certain "idioms".
So you have every reason to think twice.
Here is a simple table to help you decide:
General purpose
- Java
- VS 2003
Specialized for extremes
- C++
Specialized for office apps/certain databases
- VB

rdove · 03-17-2004, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by journeyman
Just checked out vbs - do I really have to fork out hard earned pennies for vb6 before I can start programming ? I'm very sad.

Actually I can scrape it together, I have a kidney I haven't sold yet and won't mind if it gets me into coding.

Is any of the coding that I would learn writing vbs portable to other methods such as c/c++ or python, do you know, either in ways of thinking, syntax etc.

I know you'd think I'd have a clue, but when it comes to coding I'm so cherry you could put me in a bowl and squirt cream on top and I wouldn't look out of place !

Ah good ole vb6...I pretty much gave up on that one, after converting our code from vb6 to .NET, I quickly found out how much crap you could do in vb6 and get away with it.

I would say if you want to learn something I agree with Valmont that Java or .NET would be the direction to go. My perference is .NET, but like I said before Java didn't strike my interest.

journeyman · 03-17-2004, 06:28 AM

Right so I need to check out Java or .Net.

Will do guys, good to get advice from people that are obviously taking the time to think about what they're telling me

Very much appreciated, cheers The Journeyman

inkedmn · 03-17-2004, 12:06 PM

or you could try python for free

http://python.org

personally, i've used about a half-dozen languages and VB was my least favorite by leaps and bounds. If you *have* to learn a Microsoft language (which i strongly suggest you don't because of the lack of portability, not to mention the closed-source thing), learn C# instead.

Valmont · 03-17-2004, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by inkedmn
or you could try python for free

http://python.org

personally, i've used about a half-dozen languages and VB was my least favorite by leaps and bounds. If you *have* to learn a Microsoft language (which i strongly suggest you don't because of the lack of portability, not to mention the closed-source thing), learn C# instead.

I second that!
But should someone who is exploring the world of programming really spend (quite a bit of) money in such an early stage?

Valmont · 03-17-2004, 02:37 PM

Quote:

I quickly found out how much crap you could do in vb6 and get away with it.

Now now. It serves my boss very well (and so it serves me very well).

Basically I am positve about almost every single language and environment but one has to place everything in it's context I feel.